Introduction: First Aid Unboxed – Mental Health Episode

Mark
Hello and welcome to, this is episode 13, can you believe that, of First Aid Unbox with Mark Wakeley. I'm doing some of the talking. I'm really the ringmaster, to be brutally honest. But our real expert is Louise Madeley from Madeley's First Aid Plus. Good afternoon, Louise.
Louise
Good afternoon.
Mark
It's quite warm today as well, isn't it? It's extremely warm. Yeah, we're recording this at the beginning of June and it is quite warm to be honest.
Louise
We're melting in here, let's be honest.
Mark
Just a little bit. I had to close all the windows because we can't have the noise from outside. Right then.
Louise
You need to listen to the one about heat exhaustion.
Mark
Ah, you mean the last one? Episode 12.
Louise
12.
Mark
That'll be, yes.
Mark
Okay, this week we're going to be talking about mental health. And Louise has a particular expertise and knowledge of a particular area of mental health, but everything we're talking about is relevant to everyone who feels they've got a mental health issue. So tell us a little bit about what you're going to be talking to us about today.
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Louise’s Background in Neuroscience and Mental Health

Louise
Okay, just briefly, I come from a background, before I did my intensive care and A&E and so on, I worked in neuropsychiatry. So I worked in a particular area of mental health that really fascinated me. I did a post-grad degree in neuroscience. When it comes to mental health, I always link it back to neuroscience and development and how the brain develops in the 1st place. That's my fascination, if you like, always has been. I love the brain. And the same with the physical first aid and physical medical issues. Again, I always link it back to how the brain works. And if you understand that, then the rest of it sort of flows from there.
Mark
There is talk that a lot of your mental health is wrapped up with your physical health and vice versa as well, isn't there?
Louise
Absolutely. You can't, there's no way of separating the two. You are a whole body, you're a whole person and everything, every part of your body reacts with the other. You know, one side may go down, the other may go down with it. It may be the opposite, that when one goes down, the other side improves. Everything is linked to everything else. You are only one person, and your body is linked to itself, whether it's affecting your mental health, your physical health, your social health, your religious health, your spiritual, et cetera. Everything is linked to everything else. And if one goes down, the other will suffer. They impact on each other, in other words. Yeah, absolutely.
Mark
Okay, then. I see you've got lots of sheets of paper spread across here. So we've got lots of things to talk about. As someone once said, let's start at the beginning.
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Louise’s Early Career in Agriculture and Feeling Isolated

Louise
So before I became a nurse, et cetera, et cetera, you've heard the rest of it. Prior to that, I used to work in agriculture. My grandpa was a farmer. And from a very young age, I was always interested in the farm and going to see him and spending time on the farm. So when I left school, to begin with, I did a YTS. It was a youth training scheme back in mid-80s, late 80s. '88, I left school, went straight into this, doing a YTS scheme on a farm. And I was the only female there. By far, there were very, very little females in agriculture, unless they were born into a farm and then they usually married another farmer. You know, that was their trajectory, if you like. But I spent two years doing that. And then when I left in the YTS, I went to Walford Agricultural College. And at that point, they had only just allowed women or girls, you know, I was 18. they'd only just allowed us to go to the college. So there was me and three others and then 100 and something men, basically all lads. They had just started an equestrian course, so there were other girls there, but... We didn't really socialise with them or spend much time with them because we didn't have that much in common. They were all about their horses. They all had horses. There was a stable there by that time that they'd just started up. And everything was very much about this equestrian centre that they'd started, which is great. But that's not the background I came from. So it was very difficult to interact with the girls that were on that course. So it was really just the four of us and 100 and something men. And it was very isolating at times, very, very isolating at times, I have to say, especially when I left there and went down to Exeter. And I was working on, it was one of the first organic farms, dairy farms in Britain at the time. And it was incredible, great experience, wonderful. But I would go weeks without seeing another person except the farmer and the the tractor driver, who was about 25. He was a very big, very bolshy Devonshire bloke, basically. Your stereotypical tractor driver in Devon, basically. And we did get on well, but only once I'd proved myself. As in, I'd fallen over and landed in a load of cow dung and didn't get up and act like a little girly, going, Ugh. You know, that sort of thing. I had to prove myself. And it took a long time not just to get his trust but respect. I really had to work on getting any respect from both him and the farmer.
Mark
Because you were a female.
Louise
Yeah. absolutely. And it was really hard going out. I tried young farmers but nobody in the young farmers group were farming. There was still nobody that I could talk to or spend time with that got what it was like. Being on my own on that farm. And I would literally go weeks without seeing another person apart from the two people that I worked with. And then I'd only see them, I don't know, maybe 10, 15 minutes a day. It was very hard, very hard indeed, just being able to go out. I went to the pub once just to meet people, somebody other than me to talk to. And I literally got stared back out again. I just walked in, there were three people in there. I went to the bar and wasn't spoken to, was just stared at and I got up and left again.
Mark
So what effect did this have on you as a person?
Louise
It took me a long time to get over it.
Mark
How long were you there for? How long were you working down?
Louise
It was there for a year. It was a year's placement, basically. And yeah, it was exceptionally difficult. Afterwards, I had started coming back to Shropshire for the weekends that I was off. and I'd come back to Shropshire. And I remember even a year later, after I'd left, I would still get this on a Sunday, this impending sense of doom that I'm going to have to go back. It's like, no, I'm not. This is a year later. I'm not, I don't need to go back to the farm and spend 10 days there on my own again. I was still getting, it was PTSD, basically. I was still getting those flashbacks of what it felt like and that sensory feeling. Yes.
Mark
Did you know what was happening to you at the time? So as far as you're concerned, shake yourself out of it, just get on, just get on with stuff.
Louise
Absolutely, put your head down and get on with it.
Mark
Yeah, because PTSD was not something that people spoke about. We all know it existed, it's been existed since. People have been around, but people didn't know much about it or talk about it or anything.
Louise
Yeah, absolutely. And I didn't come from a background where mental health was discussed in any way.
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Understanding the Difference Between Low Mood and Mental Illness

Mark
There are people, and I know people who seem to think, oh, you know, they're just feeling a bit sad. They can shake themselves out of it. And it's not, feeling sad is feeling sad. Yeah. But being depressed or having a mental health issue is not the same as that at all, is it?
Louise
Yeah, I mean, everybody sits, imagine you've got a staircase, and on that staircase, it's numbered one to 10, and everybody sits somewhere around sort of six or seven, that's quite usual. Now, if you can imagine winning the lottery, The first thing that will happen is you will get euphoric. You will go up that staircase to a number 10. Now, everybody, as time goes on, finds themselves back down to that six and seven, because that's where we all live in general. However, you'd lose your animal, for example. I adore my animals, especially my two dogs and my two cats. If I lost one of those, I would go down to a two or three. I would feel immensely sad for a period of time. But as time goes on, I will then come back to my six or seven along with everybody else. And that's life. That's how your brain works. That's how it's supposed to work.
Mark
Life is full of ups and downs.
Louise
Absolutely. You go up, you come back. You go down, you come back. Everybody does that. When somebody has problems with their mental health, it's when they will come down to a two or three and they will stay there. There's no coming back. Which is why when we do a PHQ-9, which is the assessment that we do?
Mark
Is it like the questionnaire thing that you get?
Louise
Yeah, in general practice.
Mark
I've filled those in a couple of times myself.
Louise
Absolutely. And one of the questions, have you felt low for two weeks or longer? So it's about a sustained level of low mood. That's when we start talking in the realms of depression and other mental health problems. When you're in that situation for a length of time and nothing is bringing you out of it. natural circumstances, you will experience grief, for example, and you will start to lift yourself back out of that two and three and come back to the six or seven. It's when that doesn't happen. That's when we're talking about somebody having, or again, somebody is hugely euphoric and then suddenly it swings right down to depression, two or three, and then bounces back up, et cetera. That's what it is.
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Mark’s Personal Experience of Depression and Coping Strategies

Mark
So this is something that many people suffer from. I've made no bones about it in the past. Anybody who knows me, I've suffered from this in the past. And I go through bouts every now and then. And you can sort of see it coming around the corner. That's probably the scariest thing of all. Well, I can anyway. I can see what's going to happen. Weirdly, being self-employed, you just have to sort of get on with it. I know that sounds a little bit flippant. But you do, and sometimes that's what gets me out of it, is coming to work and doing things I really enjoy and stuff like that.
Louise
Well, you know your strategies. You've learned your strategies over the years, that's the thing. Everybody has their own strategies of dealing with their own mental health.
Mark
That's interesting. I've never thought about it like that, but you're right.
Louise
Yeah.
Mark
I've thought of ways of thinking, almost forgetting about that and getting really involved in something else, you know?
Louise
You know what works for you.
Mark
Yeah, absolutely. So we've looked at mental health difficulties in general, let's really sort of have a proper look at what you know about and the people that you speak to.
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Mental Health in Farming and Agriculture

Louise
Yeah, so starting with basic facts here. According to the Farm Safety Foundation, 88% of UK farmers under the age of 40 say mental health is the biggest hidden problem in agriculture. And I couldn't agree more. Certainly, back when I was doing it in the late 80s, it was the biggest killer for starters. Suicide under the age of 50 is the biggest killer in men. It was then. The biggest risk industry that we have is still agriculture. It was then, it still is. We haven't improved that much in 30, 35, 40 years.
Mark
And agriculture is manned, for the want of a better phrase, by predominantly men of that age as well.
Louise
Yes. Suicide rate among male farmers remains significantly higher than the national average. It's as simple as that. And having said that, although historically it's men that have been less likely to seek help, women in farming do face their own unique pressures as well. So it's not just men that are affected by this, women as well. And a lot more women are doing the work of farmers as much as raising the children. You know, things have changed from, you know, it was a shock that a woman would be in dungarees working the farm, for example. Now that's a given, that's expected on top of all the other pressures that women have. You know, they're juggling farm work, family responsibilities, often feeling invisible, and I know that feeling, just feeling invisible around all these men in this particular industry. There are other industries which are similar, but at the moment, and since the beginning of time, really, farming has always come out, and agriculture has always come out on top. Long hours, financial stress, isolation, generational expectations as well. Every generation brings along its own difficulties. And a lot of people in the younger communities of farming do feel the pressures of the older generation. My husband's a land agent. He has many farmers that are his clients. And quite often it is still the older generation that may be making the main decisions on the farm, for example. And that does have an effect on people's mental health. I mean, normally you get to 20, 25 and you're off on your own and you're making your own way in life. In farming it's very different because it's not a job, it's a way of life. So you've got intergenerational issues going on within the house that everybody still lives in and they're all working together as well. So, you know, there's a lot of issues relating to that Joe Public, everybody else doesn't have.
Mark
Is it still quite old-fashioned in a way?
Louise
Yeah, I think it's changing with the younger generations and the way people are, I mean... I say they don't have any training. Of course they do. They go to agricultural college. There is still Walford, Harper Adams up the road. You know, there are places where amazing institutions where people do learn how to be farmers, but not necessarily in the leadership side of things and how to be a good business leader. That's something that certainly generationally, that didn't exist in the last generation, the one before and the one before that. And actually, they're still the decision makers. So as the youngsters now, Gen Z and so on, as they're coming out, they will have had more of that training. So things will change as the generations go, so to speak. But that's a long time to wait before you can actually start making decisions independently.
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Barriers to Getting Help and the Impact of Mental Health Stigma

Mark
Absolutely, absolutely. I want to move on sort of diagnosis now. Yeah. And whether you're able to self-diagnose or do you need someone to point it out to you? Or is it when you're just not feeling great? Should you go to the doctors? Is there websites that you can look at? What can we do about that side of things? Because notoriously difficult to diagnose.
Louise
Yes.
Mark
Because a lot of people either don't realise it's happening to them, don't want to think it's happening to them, or just I'm trying to ignore it completely.
Louise
Yeah. And there are a lot of barriers to people getting help. It's as simple as that. Yes, there are. Part of it being stigma, which when I do my sessions, about 80% of it is actually about breaking down stigma. Simple things like somebody referred today, we were talking about something else, and she mentioned that somebody had committed suicide recently, 35-year-old running a pub, committed suicide. I said, right, let's just take that a sec. Can we change the way you've just said that? And I explained where committing suicide comes from. It's because it used to be a crime. You were committing a crime, hence you commit suicide. If you go back to the very early 1900s and 1800s, the punishment for attempting to take your own life was to be hanged by the neck. Thank God we've evolved for starters.
Mark
And society has moved on. Yeah, thankfully we have come a long way since.
Louise
But we're still using these terms, like committing suicide. You know, it is not a crime to attempt to take your own life or to succeed in taking your own life. It's a tragedy, is what it is. And it's something that we absolutely need to work more on to stop it from happening, because they are all non-accidental deaths. They're avoidable. But it starts with talking and talking very young, getting young children to understand their own mental health and to look at themselves and to learn resilience as much as anything amongst lots of other things, but it will start with us getting that stigma gone and these basic terminologies that we use, committing suicide, calling somebody an idiot. Well, idiocy was a mental health term. It was a diagnosis, as was lunacy. Things that I hear in general conversation most days from somebody. So stigma is the biggest barrier to us getting help. The first thing we really need to do is speak to your GP. Because when we're talking about mental health, there are many physical factors that may be responsible. And you need to seek medical help first and a medical opinion in order to rule out other physical things that may be going on, that may be causing it. So yeah, there are lots of supports, lots of people out there that can help. But start with the medical profession, see your GP, explain what it is that you're experiencing and rule out anything physical before you decide. You need somebody who has spent seven years training medically, et cetera, and knows the body inside out and how it interacts with your mental health, et cetera, to rule out other physical problems as well.
Mark
Yeah, because on the NHS site, if you look up things like, you know, mental health issues, it will always ultimately ask you some questions but then eventually it'll say call 111 or you know go and see your GP or whatever it may be.
Louise
Absolutely.
Mark
You know that this is the approach that they have you know that you do need to see at some point you're going to see a medical professional.
Louise
Yeah you need to speak to somebody who is a diagnostician and I'm trained to diagnose because I spent four years at university getting my bachelor's and then did my master's in ACP at Birmingham Medical School. But there is again Talking is the priority. Speak to the support systems that are out there. Speak to each other apart from anything. Start with each other. There are lots of support systems out there. It's a question of reaching out and utilising them. But most certainly, if you're concerned in any way, do start with your GP practice.
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Key Signs of Mental Health Problems to Look Out For

Mark
We'll be talking about some of the support groups in a moment. So if you are wondering, or you're wondering about someone you know, what are the things to look out for?
Louise
Firstly, signs of withdrawal, mood swings, fatigue, oversleeping, or the opposite, under sleeping. Diminished interest as well in, I say in farming, family life, et cetera, but in general, in all the things that you'll normally get quite excited about and enjoy doing. Anything that involves not wanting to participate in things that you normally enjoy. It may manifest as well as perfectionism and emotional exhaustion. The key really is early intervention and support, and it's recognising that you are not feeling your usual self and that you need to get support.
Mark
So it's a very obvious change in personality almost, yourself.
Louise
It doesn't have to be obvious either. Quite often it's those subtle changes. And that, especially when you're talking about somebody else's mental health, that's the key. That's what you're looking for with somebody that you know. When they start presenting a little differently to how they normally would. If it's somebody coming into your workplace, and normally they're on time, they're well presented, they're clean, they're well-kempt, so to speak, and they've started coming in maybe a couple of days a week, they're a bit later than they usually are, and they don't appear quite as well-kempt as they normally are, etc. It's these small nuances and these slight changes that you need to look for, certainly in people that you know, when it's not yourself. You're less likely to notice this yourself. People tend to need a nudge and need it pointing out to them. They won't necessarily notice these things themselves in the early stages.
Mark
Because sometimes it's happening over a period of time and they just don't notice what's going on.
Louise
Absolutely, yeah.
Mark
In themselves.
Louise
And is there anything in your friend's recent past that's occurred that would explain why there are these changes?
Mark
Something that could be a trigger.
Louise
Yeah, absolutely. Always look for triggers. And when it comes to coping strategies, knowing your triggers, like you were saying earlier, what works for you and what you've learned over the years about yourself and what works. It's really recognizing what your triggers are and avoiding them.
Mark
I wouldn't avoid everybody to go and read a book about pirate radio. That's pretty much how I deal with it. So in these situations, what's the best strategies to adopt?
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Practical Coping Strategies for Better Mental Health

Louise
So, yeah, coping strategies, I've listed One to six, basically. So, number one, routine and rest is exceptionally important, and I put it as number one because it is that important. Building small routines, regular bedtime, morning walk regularly, giving yourself time to have these healthy, good habits. It just helps regulate your body and your mind. Sleep is often sacrificed, but actually it's essential for mental clarity, emotional resilience, et cetera. So getting enough sleep is vitally important. And again, when we're talking about agriculture, it's also extremely difficult to do, but it's something that does need to be thought of a lot more than it is.
Number two, talking to someone, whether it's your mate, your partner, a professional. It doesn't matter who you start talking to, the idea is that you start talking, whoever it is that you talk to. There's lots of peer support groups, which I'll talk about in a minute, that are tailored to farmers, different industries, men, women, etc. And they can be a lifeline.
Limit isolation as well, and that was a big thing for me, certainly. 35 years ago. Schedule regular social contact, for example. Get it in the diary. Physically write it down. It shows that when you write things down, you are far more likely to do it than if you just keep it in your head. So write down on something that you can see on a calendar in your kitchen, for example. Write it down that you are going to be going out at this time, on this date. Even if it's just a weekly pub night or a phone call with a friend, doesn't matter what it is, but just regular social contact. For women, joining networks like Women in Farming, for example, that's great support and solidarity as much as anything else.
Using mindfulness as well, number four. Now, we're already surrounded by nature, particularly in the agricultural sector. It's all around us, but it doesn't necessarily mean that we are almost inhaling it and appreciating it. taking your shoes off, walk in the grass, don't leave your wellies on, unless it's really wet. But in general, you know, just for five minutes, take your wellies off and walk in the grass.
Mark
But be aware of your surroundings.
Louise
Absolutely, yeah. Stop and actually look at that leaf. Not just it's a leaf on a tree or on a bush or whatever, but actually identify it. Have a look at it. Watch the veins going through it. It's simple things like that that bring us back to the present. For example, anxiety. Anxiety is always about something that's going to happen. It's always in the future. Anxiety is never in the present. It's worrying about something in the future. Even if it's only a minute, 10 minutes away, it's still something about the future. If you bring yourself back to the present and the now, then your anxiety will automatically reduce. So just taking time to look at something that brings you back to the present is really important.
Mark
Almost like a meditation thing.
Louise
Yeah, yeah. Using headspace or calm. I've got calm on my phone. I love the whale sounds and things like that.
Mark
My wife listens to whale sounds all the time. The other thing she listens to is the shipping forecast thing that they've got. So it's someone reading the shipping forecast, but over some very nice gentle music.
Louise
My husband loves that because he used to love the shipping forecast. Hardly ever been on a boat, but loves the shipping forecast. Because it is, it's that soporific sound.
Mark
I think that's something about being British.
Louise
Yeah, I think you might be right there. But no, they are great. With me, it's the sound of the sea crashing against waves. I spent a lot of time with my grandparents in Southwold, Suffolk, all of my holidays, and I used to hear that sound every night. It used to soothe me to sleep every night. So that works for me. It doesn't work for everybody, but it works for me. And knowing your triggers, as we were saying earlier. Keeping a journal, documenting things is really important. It works extremely well. Making mental notes of what tends to cause stress, whether it's financial, could be the weather, could be the uncertainty of the climate, particularly in agriculture. And quite often it is that not knowing what's going to happen next, we can't predict the weather. We can't predict which day we can get out into that field, or whether the hay crop or the wheat crop is going to suffer because of the weather. We don't know. We can take a guess, but we don't know for certain. And it's uncertainty that always unbalances us. And planning ahead to be able to manage those moments as well. And number six, which is also number one, seek professional help. Go and speak to your GP.
Mark
That's the message really, isn't it?
Louise
Yeah, it has to be. You need to rule out other things that may be causing it as much as anything. And again, they have resources that they can signpost you to. Six sessions of CBT, for example, that's free on the NHS, that kind of thing.
Mark
And I've been through that, so, you know, I know it does exist.
Louise
Yeah, absolutely. There are things that you can do. Yes, there are private businesses out there as well, make sure if you are going with private as opposed to NHS, make sure they are qualified to do what they say they can do. Please make sure, check that they are with, for example, the BACP, British Association for Counsellors and Psychotherapists, if that's the way you're going, that they have a master's in the right qualification for CBT, etc. Always make sure that they are affiliated with companies or with the associations that they say that they are. You can look them up. They need to be registered. Do your research. You would do your research if you were looking at going to a different consultant, for example, because you had a physical problem. Why on earth wouldn't you for your mental health?
Mark
Exactly.
Louise
Make sure that you do your research on that person.
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Key Mental Health Support Organisations (National and Shropshire)

Mark
Okay. So there's a number of organisations. We're focused mainly on the Shropshire versions of those organisations, but many of them nationwide. So what organisations can help us in this situation?
Louise
Okay, so we'll start with the Samaritans. They're free, it's confidential support, 24/7, samaritans.org. In farming, there is Yellow Wellies, Farm Safety Foundation. They're about mental health awareness and education, particularly for young farmers, so they're yellowwellies.org. In the local area, Mind are phenomenal. You know, I can't say enough about Mind, they really are. Around here, it's Telford Mind, which is telford/mind.co.uk. But if you go onto Mind in any other part of the country, you will find your local branch. National support available for Shropshire farmers, you've got RABI, which is your Royal Agricultural Benevolent Institution, most farmers do know about this, 24/7 helpline, there's counselling, financial and emotional support there. That's rabi.org.uk. The Farming Community Network, FCN, pastoral and practical support for farmers and families. They are fcn.org.uk. And then more locally, we've got Shropshire Rural Support, who are phenomenal. They're an incredible charity. that offers confidential free support for farmers and rural families. So it's not just farmers, it's people working in the agricultural sector. It's about rural support, particularly dealing with stress, anxiety, financial worries, and family issues. And again, that is run by people with farming backgrounds in particular, who understand the pressures of agricultural life. And they're on shropshireruralsupport.org.uk. And Shropshire Mental Health Support, again, this is a charity in Shropshire itself. Very good with crisis support, suicide prevention, outreach, peer support, that kind of thing. They're based in Shrewsbury, and it's shropshiremhs.com. There is the support out there, you just need to go and reach out and grab it, is the key. Start with your GP, but at the same time, they can be contacted 24/7, and they will signpost you to where you need to, where you need to start.
Mark
And they will take you seriously.
Louise
Absolutely, always.
Mark
This is something, you know, obviously, speak to your GP as well, which is the first port of call really, but there's all these other organisations that can help you. There will be organisations in the area where you live as well, whether you're living in the UK or not, there will be organisations internationally. But don't sit there and think, Oh, there's nothing wrong with me, or I'm just being silly. It doesn't work like that. Speak to your GP. That's the most important information and the most important advice we can give anybody.
Louise
Yeah, just remember, coping isn't about being perfect. It's as simple as that. It's anything but. It's about finding what works for you, giving yourself permission to not be okay all the time. I know it's a cliche and we all say it's okay to not be okay. But it is okay to not be okay.
Mark
I know.
Louise
Everybody's okay all the time.
Mark
I'm 62 and I still have tantrums and stamp my feet and my wife says, it's okay not to be perfect. Stop worrying about being perfect all the time. And she's absolutely right because... Anybody who thinks they're perfect is probably turning a lie to themselves, I think.
Louise
I wouldn't have started this podcast if it was a case of I need to be perfect, because that was the, I tend to get in my own way all the time. And it was somebody who just turned around and said, Instead of talking about it, just get on and do it. It doesn't need to be perfect. You just need to start doing it.
Mark
Absolutely.
Louise
And that was what made me out of conversation with you, and the rest is history, as they said. Absolutely.
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‍Mental Health First Aid Training

Mark
Okay, professionally, you run Madeley's First Aid Plus, which is a first aid training company.
Louise
Yes.
Mark
And you do individual courses, you do classes, you do corporate classes, all kinds of things, don't you?
Louise
I do, both in the physical and the mental health. I am not a counsellor anymore. I do not work in the mental health sector. Just to say, I am not a registered mental health nurse anymore. That's all gone. What I do is I use my years of experience to talk about workplace mental health and strategies and so on, and how we can look after each other. So I do mental health first aid, but it's more geared towards youth workplaces. and individuals, corporations, anybody really, but it's about using strategies and getting rid of stigma. 80% of it is get rid of the stigma and then the barriers will go. As soon as the barriers go down, then we have access to support.
Mark
So if people want to get in contact with you, what's the website address?
Louise
It's madeleysfirstaidplus.co.uk or you can e-mail me at enquiries@madeleysfirstaidplus.co.uk
.
Mark
And all the information is on the website, isn't it? Of the courses that you run and when they're running and so on and so forth. People can book through there as well, can't they?
Louise
Absolutely, but if there isn't a date down, don't worry, just send me a message and I will sort that out.
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Episode Wrap-Up and Future Topics

Mark
That is fantastic, thank you ever so much for coming in. It's great to talk to you, like I said, the main thing is go to your GP. It is pretty much with all the things that we do on this, but this one specifically, that's the message we're trying to get across. Thank you very much, Louise. We will speak to you again in two weeks' time. And I think we're talking about fractures, aren't we?
Louise
We are indeed, yeah.
Mark
Yeah, we got a bit confused. If I said we were talking about fractures at the end of last one, we got a bit confused when we did mental health. The other thing is that we decided during the recording of this podcast, the bits that we've edited out, we decided we're going to do a sleep episode at some point as well. So listen out for that in the future, and Louise will be telling you all about what she knows about sleep. That's what we're going to talk about in a few weeks time. Great to speak to you and we'll speak to you again very soon.
Louise
Thank you, looking forward to it.
Mark
This is a 1386 audio production.